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	<title>Comments for The Visitors' Center</title>
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	<description>Celebrating Mormon Sexuality</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:21:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Unrealistic Expectations? by Sunday in Outer Blogness: It&#8217;s All in Your Head Edition! &#124; Main Street Plaza</title>
		<link>http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/unrealistic-expectations/#comment-1041</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunday in Outer Blogness: It&#8217;s All in Your Head Edition! &#124; Main Street Plaza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/?p=37#comment-1041</guid>
		<description>[...] to Angel Falling Softly. (If you need a refresher on Angel Falling Softly see here, and look here and here for our earlier discussions of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to Angel Falling Softly. (If you need a refresher on Angel Falling Softly see here, and look here and here for our earlier discussions of [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Guest post: &#8220;Do it for England&#8221; by John15</title>
		<link>http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/guest-post-do-it-for-england/#comment-1040</link>
		<dc:creator>John15</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/?p=51#comment-1040</guid>
		<description>But identifying obstacles and solutions, and providing relevant training for how to work together are concrete steps towards making organizations more representative and increasing the quali- ty of their services. ,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But identifying obstacles and solutions, and providing relevant training for how to work together are concrete steps towards making organizations more representative and increasing the quali- ty of their services. ,</p>
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		<title>Comment on On the origin of nipples by hugtug</title>
		<link>http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/on-the-origin-of-nipples/#comment-1039</link>
		<dc:creator>hugtug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-1039</guid>
		<description>&quot;Why do men have nipples? Nipples arose quite recently (evolutionarily speaking), and in some mammalian species, males actually nurse their young.&quot;

You must be really ignorant. Have ever hugged someone, or had the pleasure of rubbing female nipples on a male to give him mini orgasms? Are you serious that you don&#039;t know why men have nipples? They are a very pleasurable zone in addition to the groin.  Male and female relationships are not about just the groin - their about rubbing nipples. I can&#039;t believe you would ask such a silly question. How old are you? have you ever hugged someone? Are you a child?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why do men have nipples? Nipples arose quite recently (evolutionarily speaking), and in some mammalian species, males actually nurse their young.&#8221;</p>
<p>You must be really ignorant. Have ever hugged someone, or had the pleasure of rubbing female nipples on a male to give him mini orgasms? Are you serious that you don&#8217;t know why men have nipples? They are a very pleasurable zone in addition to the groin.  Male and female relationships are not about just the groin &#8211; their about rubbing nipples. I can&#8217;t believe you would ask such a silly question. How old are you? have you ever hugged someone? Are you a child?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Unrealistic Expectations? by RIchard Flores</title>
		<link>http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/unrealistic-expectations/#comment-1038</link>
		<dc:creator>RIchard Flores</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/?p=37#comment-1038</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s unfortunate that people seem to be focused purely in the physical and the potential for harm in an unsupervised environment.  Let&#039;s face it, the guys are intimidated by Edward&#039;s looks, not the other attributes.  Now, the problem is that girls and boys are typically NOT taught the dynamics of relationship development from their parents, so they get corrupt and often perverted concepts from secular sources!  They are NOT taught the details of the difference between secular concepts of love, which is more closely related to lust, and the spiritual connections of the transcendental, which is the source of intimacy!  They are not taught the sequence of escalating friendship into a romantic relationship because with their version it all happens too fast and enters the physical far too quickly!  We understand the cycle of stages of relationship development; infatuation, conflict/role determination, friendship, love, and finally, if you wait long enough...intimacy!  Sadly, this process is typically complicated with the complexities of premature physical interactions!  This is the &quot;dark&quot; side that the &quot;good people&quot; refuse to discuss with the &quot;good girls&quot; but are physical realities!  We must be willing to address the realities of physical desire and integrate it with the understanding of the spiritual relationship development.  If relationships escalate to the physical prematurely, they always fail because their is not sufficient emotional commitment and connection to deal with the complex emotions that result.  The key is to learn to overcome animal urges with intellect.  As rational people of honor, we understand the realities, practicalities, AND most importantly, the difficulties associated with the restraint of our physical desires at 17!

The REAL question is: &quot;Does this literature encourage investigating restraint or giving into animal urges?&quot;  I think that the answer is clear...It realistically addresses the challenges of sexual desire while clearly recognizing that there is a path of honor and righteousness where our honor provides the restraint to behave as God intents!  We can try to intellectualize this with long dissertations on Agency, but how does that help the young to restrain their behavior and respect their bodies?  In truth, it doesn&#039;t!  They are visual learners and can understand the use of free will to demonstrate their love through restraint, sacrifice, and honorable choices!  It is easy to over-intellectualize these books and try to turn this into an exercise in futility, or better yet, use these to visually teach the young to restrain their desires and live a life of spiritual and physical intimacy that provides eternal happiness that those in the secular world will never enjoy!

As the honorable and responsible father of four young adults, I have successfully used these books to enhance the teaching of my sons and daughters about the values of overcoming our physical urges and using our free will for good.  My sons better understand the practicalities of applying the concepts of honor and respect to ALL of their decisions wrt respecting their dates and restraint from physical contact.  My daughters better understand their roles in demanding appropriate behavior and respect from their dates.  It has helped to clarify what I have taught them all along.  As such, these books are a wonderful teaching visuals for young adults.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s unfortunate that people seem to be focused purely in the physical and the potential for harm in an unsupervised environment.  Let&#8217;s face it, the guys are intimidated by Edward&#8217;s looks, not the other attributes.  Now, the problem is that girls and boys are typically NOT taught the dynamics of relationship development from their parents, so they get corrupt and often perverted concepts from secular sources!  They are NOT taught the details of the difference between secular concepts of love, which is more closely related to lust, and the spiritual connections of the transcendental, which is the source of intimacy!  They are not taught the sequence of escalating friendship into a romantic relationship because with their version it all happens too fast and enters the physical far too quickly!  We understand the cycle of stages of relationship development; infatuation, conflict/role determination, friendship, love, and finally, if you wait long enough&#8230;intimacy!  Sadly, this process is typically complicated with the complexities of premature physical interactions!  This is the &#8220;dark&#8221; side that the &#8220;good people&#8221; refuse to discuss with the &#8220;good girls&#8221; but are physical realities!  We must be willing to address the realities of physical desire and integrate it with the understanding of the spiritual relationship development.  If relationships escalate to the physical prematurely, they always fail because their is not sufficient emotional commitment and connection to deal with the complex emotions that result.  The key is to learn to overcome animal urges with intellect.  As rational people of honor, we understand the realities, practicalities, AND most importantly, the difficulties associated with the restraint of our physical desires at 17!</p>
<p>The REAL question is: &#8220;Does this literature encourage investigating restraint or giving into animal urges?&#8221;  I think that the answer is clear&#8230;It realistically addresses the challenges of sexual desire while clearly recognizing that there is a path of honor and righteousness where our honor provides the restraint to behave as God intents!  We can try to intellectualize this with long dissertations on Agency, but how does that help the young to restrain their behavior and respect their bodies?  In truth, it doesn&#8217;t!  They are visual learners and can understand the use of free will to demonstrate their love through restraint, sacrifice, and honorable choices!  It is easy to over-intellectualize these books and try to turn this into an exercise in futility, or better yet, use these to visually teach the young to restrain their desires and live a life of spiritual and physical intimacy that provides eternal happiness that those in the secular world will never enjoy!</p>
<p>As the honorable and responsible father of four young adults, I have successfully used these books to enhance the teaching of my sons and daughters about the values of overcoming our physical urges and using our free will for good.  My sons better understand the practicalities of applying the concepts of honor and respect to ALL of their decisions wrt respecting their dates and restraint from physical contact.  My daughters better understand their roles in demanding appropriate behavior and respect from their dates.  It has helped to clarify what I have taught them all along.  As such, these books are a wonderful teaching visuals for young adults.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Unrealistic Expectations? by It&#8217;s Time to Play: Anti-Mormon&#8230; Or Not? &#124; Main Street Plaza</title>
		<link>http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/unrealistic-expectations/#comment-1033</link>
		<dc:creator>It&#8217;s Time to Play: Anti-Mormon&#8230; Or Not? &#124; Main Street Plaza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 17:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/?p=37#comment-1033</guid>
		<description>[...] 9. Twilight: Written by a Mormon and superficially &#8220;clean,&#8221; this novel promotes highly questionable ideas about relationships for impressionable young Mormon girls. It has been called &#8220;porn for women&#8221; by more people than I can count. (see the discussion here.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 9. Twilight: Written by a Mormon and superficially &#8220;clean,&#8221; this novel promotes highly questionable ideas about relationships for impressionable young Mormon girls. It has been called &#8220;porn for women&#8221; by more people than I can count. (see the discussion here.) [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Utah&#8217;s #1! In porn consumption&#8230; by Joe Two</title>
		<link>http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/2009/03/15/utahs-1-in-porn-consumption/#comment-1029</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Two</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/?p=356#comment-1029</guid>
		<description>Like all conversations/arguments about pornography, nobody really knows what you mean when you say the word. The statement &quot;I know it when I see it&quot; is complete nonsense. What I consider porn is more extreme, but probably well within the range of definition of most people, than what my sister-in-law considers porn, which is a far outlier. However, even within any commonly accepted definition of porn there are serious gradations and this is the problem with this study; we have no idea what they are actually talking about.

First, we need to determine if the percentages of married couples doing this with the full knowledge of the other spouse, spouses doing this without the knowledge of their companion and singles.

Second, we need to break down what the prevalence is with regards to sex of the subscriber.

Third, what porn is each demographic looking at?

My own guess is that the vast majority of this [paid] porn is couples viewing mostly straight sex videos that is only one step removed from your standard Cinemax soft-core erotica (some of which is pretty good for the purposes of getting things heated up.) I&#039;m not exactly being a braniac here; I&#039;m just looking at where the bulk of material is being produced.

A second reason for my prediction is that single men know how to get the stuff THEY want for free and don&#039;t really have the money to pay for it anyway and married men and women who are hiding their consumption from their companion are also getting it free because they don&#039;t want to get caught.

One last prediction, among couples, men are the primary drivers of using porn in an attempt to find intimacy that is missing in their marriage. The church repeatedly blunders in emphasizing the matriarchal aspects of relationships and demonizing the patriarchal. This greatly affects many men who find the rejection and demonization of their sexual desires to be emotionally painful. It also affects a lot of women who also want more, but are made to believe that such desires are wicked. A big point is that once they see quality porn, many women realize they enjoy it and that at the very least, isn&#039;t an awful thing so why not if it makes their man happy?

(Sidebar: repeated studies have found that women respond physiologically to porn to the same extent as men, even the hard core stuff. They&#039;ve also found that women respond strongly to depictions of intimacy, regardless of the sexual match up, while men don&#039;t respond outside their own sexual preference.)

PS. For those who scream about &quot;addiction&quot;; give me a break. Even if I accept the use of the word addiction (which I most certainly do not, even for most drugs), you can turn just about anything into an addiction. I know people &quot;addicted&quot; to church. Growing up, there was a man so &quot;addicted&quot; to being Bishop, his wife almost divorced him (though I&#039;ve long suspected he was really just avoiding her, who I suspect was nice to be around, but hell to live with.)

In most other cultures, the threat of having a mistress would</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like all conversations/arguments about pornography, nobody really knows what you mean when you say the word. The statement &#8220;I know it when I see it&#8221; is complete nonsense. What I consider porn is more extreme, but probably well within the range of definition of most people, than what my sister-in-law considers porn, which is a far outlier. However, even within any commonly accepted definition of porn there are serious gradations and this is the problem with this study; we have no idea what they are actually talking about.</p>
<p>First, we need to determine if the percentages of married couples doing this with the full knowledge of the other spouse, spouses doing this without the knowledge of their companion and singles.</p>
<p>Second, we need to break down what the prevalence is with regards to sex of the subscriber.</p>
<p>Third, what porn is each demographic looking at?</p>
<p>My own guess is that the vast majority of this [paid] porn is couples viewing mostly straight sex videos that is only one step removed from your standard Cinemax soft-core erotica (some of which is pretty good for the purposes of getting things heated up.) I&#8217;m not exactly being a braniac here; I&#8217;m just looking at where the bulk of material is being produced.</p>
<p>A second reason for my prediction is that single men know how to get the stuff THEY want for free and don&#8217;t really have the money to pay for it anyway and married men and women who are hiding their consumption from their companion are also getting it free because they don&#8217;t want to get caught.</p>
<p>One last prediction, among couples, men are the primary drivers of using porn in an attempt to find intimacy that is missing in their marriage. The church repeatedly blunders in emphasizing the matriarchal aspects of relationships and demonizing the patriarchal. This greatly affects many men who find the rejection and demonization of their sexual desires to be emotionally painful. It also affects a lot of women who also want more, but are made to believe that such desires are wicked. A big point is that once they see quality porn, many women realize they enjoy it and that at the very least, isn&#8217;t an awful thing so why not if it makes their man happy?</p>
<p>(Sidebar: repeated studies have found that women respond physiologically to porn to the same extent as men, even the hard core stuff. They&#8217;ve also found that women respond strongly to depictions of intimacy, regardless of the sexual match up, while men don&#8217;t respond outside their own sexual preference.)</p>
<p>PS. For those who scream about &#8220;addiction&#8221;; give me a break. Even if I accept the use of the word addiction (which I most certainly do not, even for most drugs), you can turn just about anything into an addiction. I know people &#8220;addicted&#8221; to church. Growing up, there was a man so &#8220;addicted&#8221; to being Bishop, his wife almost divorced him (though I&#8217;ve long suspected he was really just avoiding her, who I suspect was nice to be around, but hell to live with.)</p>
<p>In most other cultures, the threat of having a mistress would</p>
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		<title>Comment on Guest post: &#8220;Do it for England&#8221; by LorreewsVob</title>
		<link>http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/guest-post-do-it-for-england/#comment-1027</link>
		<dc:creator>LorreewsVob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/?p=51#comment-1027</guid>
		<description>hello it is test. WinRAR provides the full RAR and ZIP file support, can decompress CAB, GZIP, ACE and other archive formats.
crvmwodzdhegyrwkkenwgfzuuudbgenrdpohello</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hello it is test. WinRAR provides the full RAR and ZIP file support, can decompress CAB, GZIP, ACE and other archive formats.<br />
crvmwodzdhegyrwkkenwgfzuuudbgenrdpohello</p>
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		<title>Comment on A little bit of cleavage by D'Arcy</title>
		<link>http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/2008/12/19/a-little-bit-of-cleavage/#comment-1026</link>
		<dc:creator>D'Arcy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 04:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/?p=354#comment-1026</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve had an ample bosom since High School. I have to say, I&#039;ve used it to advantage a few times....but I&#039;ve also felt bad about it and covered it up more often than not. It&#039;s an interesting journey that a woman takes with her breasts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve had an ample bosom since High School. I have to say, I&#8217;ve used it to advantage a few times&#8230;.but I&#8217;ve also felt bad about it and covered it up more often than not. It&#8217;s an interesting journey that a woman takes with her breasts.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Caught in the act by xuxppxxuxyyy</title>
		<link>http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/caught-in-the-act/#comment-1025</link>
		<dc:creator>xuxppxxuxyyy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 00:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/?p=216#comment-1025</guid>
		<description>hello it is test. WinRAR provides the full RAR and ZIP file support, can decompress CAB, GZIP, ACE and other archive formats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hello it is test. WinRAR provides the full RAR and ZIP file support, can decompress CAB, GZIP, ACE and other archive formats.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Flip a coin, I guess by traumerin</title>
		<link>http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/2008/11/05/flip-a-coin-i-guess/#comment-1024</link>
		<dc:creator>traumerin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 21:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visitorscenter.wordpress.com/?p=336#comment-1024</guid>
		<description>Maybe if almost half of women have &quot;sexual dysfunction,&quot; it&#039;s not dysfunction...it&#039;s just &quot;normal.&quot; Based on past experiences with people, mainly men, who had unrealistic expectations about female sexuality, it wouldn&#039;t surprise me.

This is not to say that no one has &quot;sexual problems&quot; or should be concerned about them, but it does leave me wondering if something is wrong with our entire model of &quot;good and normal&quot; sex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe if almost half of women have &#8220;sexual dysfunction,&#8221; it&#8217;s not dysfunction&#8230;it&#8217;s just &#8220;normal.&#8221; Based on past experiences with people, mainly men, who had unrealistic expectations about female sexuality, it wouldn&#8217;t surprise me.</p>
<p>This is not to say that no one has &#8220;sexual problems&#8221; or should be concerned about them, but it does leave me wondering if something is wrong with our entire model of &#8220;good and normal&#8221; sex.</p>
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