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Moriah JovanMormon “technical virgins”
Posted by chanson on December 10, 2008
Even when I was a virginal Mormon teenager, I found the idea of doing “everything else but” — just so that you could remain officially a virgin — was a little weird and irrational. I thought about this again while re-reading Greta Christina’s influential article Are We Having Sex Now or What? Greta talks about how she didn’t perceive any sexual play besides penis/vagina intercourse as “sex” until she started having sex with women (as an adult ).
My own experience was quite different. Yes, like Greta, for a time I kept a mental list that included only those people I had all of sex with (by the standard heterosexual definition ). However, for my first experience, I never really saw “technical virginity” as the significant dividing line. With my first real boyfriend I didn’t quite go “all the way” (would have, but we broke up too quickly ), and it was with him that (in my own perception ) I crossed the line from “inexperienced” to “experienced.” Crossing the official line with another boyfriend a year later was merely a technicality so that others would agree that I was not longer a virgin.
So I’m wondering: Is it just me, or is it a Mormon thing to downplay “technical virginity”?
I think one could make a case for either side. On the one hand, Mormon chastity lessons for youth always emphasize that masturbation, necking, and petting are sins that are right up there with fornication — practically just different points on the immorality spectrum. And you can repent of any of them and be again chaste. On the other hand, it’s my impression that a couple can have a temple wedding as long as they’re “only” doing “everything else but.”
What do you say? Do you laugh at the idea behind the following Landover Baptist image? Or do/did you believe it?
Sabayon said
I don’t think Mormons in general are big on technical virginity, since I believe the standard is once your pants are off it’s a sin and you have to talk to your bishop(I don’t know where I got that, but I think a very interesting night at youth conference–of course that sister gave us Dr. Pepper and so is probably evil).
I for one never even vaguely understood the “technical virginity” thing, but I had a roommate in college who was a big believer. She even allowed that for lesbians, oral sex could count, in terms of the relationship divide on when you have had sex, not that it really counted. (Slightly inappropriate story to follow) As she had a relationship with a girl the previous semester that lasted several months and she said never included sex, this led to an hilarious moment wherein I explained that most lesbians consider many other things to be sex. A look of horror crossed her face as she realized that her ex probably thought they had sex, which changed the whole view of the relationship in her mind. So dire was this question that she immediately grabbed her cell phone and called said ex to find out if what I said was true. Good times. Probably funnier if you knew most insane roommate though.
Flygirl said
I have had several friends who did “everything but…” Though eventually most of them realized that it didn’t make a ton of difference and just ended up having intercourse. It never quite made sense to me, but neither does having any sort of an artificial line declaring your worthiness or virginity.
Joe (Two) said
While there may be a few naive people out there, most people, Mormons included, know this technical virginity stuff is bunk. I don’t believe anyone who claims otherwise (just like I don’t believe anyone who believes oral sex isn’t sex. Or that oral sex with between people who are married to other people doesn’t constitute cheating. Genital contact and female breast contact constitutes sex of some kind and pretending otherwise is to be intentionally stupid. (I’m all for such contact and as often as possible, but I don’t pretend it’s anything other than what it is.)
Laura said
I totally agree with Joe’s comment. My sister in law was exactly like that. She and her now-husband LIVED TOGETHER for two years and shared a bed and everything, but were “waiting” til they got married to “actually” have sex. To do “everything but” v to p intercourse and still call yourself a virgin or pretend you’re being chaste or something is completely ridiculous. I imagine most rational people, including Mormons, would agree.
chanson said
One of my friends at BYU had a non-Mormon-Christian boyfriend who felt that one-directional oral sex (guess which direction ) didn’t count, but that real sex was something special to be saved for marriage. My Mormon friend felt that that was awfully convenient for him, and didn’t really make much sense.
So we all seem to agree here that Mormons don’t really have this idea of “technical virginity” (using the back door, etc., in order to remain a virgin ). Yet, there’s evidence that the idea exists to some degree in Mormonism:
Doesn’t the Miracle of Forgiveness say that the reason you have to fight to the death when being raped is because you lose irreplaceable virtue through sex, even if you were forced? Doesn’t that imply that “virtue” = “intact hymen”?
aerin said
chanson – I have never understood that miracle of forgiveness bullshit. Sorry. That specifically. It drives me nuts and gets me all red in the face and pissed off. A rape victim is a victim. A victim of incest is a victim.
Fortunately, I think there are many people within our larger society and within the mormon church who believe that (disagreeing with SWK). It’s one of those “doctrines” that needs to be denounced from the pulpit because of the lasting damage it’s done to families, and to victims of sexual abuse.
As far as the “anything but”…I remember hearing about this for the first time in high school in a secular anti-drug weekend I attended. Someone was suggesting that couples would try anything but – and still consider themselves virgins and faithful. I think it was related more towards Roman Catholicism though.
I think the emphasis needs to be on responsible sexuality – in taking responsibility for your actions and understanding the physical and emotional consequences (instead of abstinence only). I think masturbation is mentioned in some abstinence only programs.
I’ve heard many teenagers defend unprotected sex – it just happened, and it would be less of a sin if they don’t plan than if they planned it out beforehand. I think people need to be held accountable for their own actions (well, and birth control should be available for all high schoolers but that’s another rant).
chanson said
Aerin — I agree about the Miracle of Forgiveness, and I also agree that a lot of Mormons reject the values in it (such as the shocking position on rape ). I brought it up, though, since that book really is still influential in Mormon culture…
Lily said
I think the technical virginity thing allowed me to feel okay about doing a lot of sexual stuff w/o feeling like I’d really blown my chance at a true temple marriage (sealed by the holy spirit and all). But when I look back on it now, I usually count myself as losing my virginity the first time I had an orgasm from sexual stimulation by my partner. At least for me that was about surrendering something far more tangible than a hymen and it marked my awakening as a sexually-active person.