Lily
Doctor Jane
Lotus
Joseph
chanson
Jacob
Tom Sawyer
Moriah JovanThe Brazilian?
Posted by Lily on July 1, 2008
When discussing the topic of waxing, I suspect that I am more than a bit old-fashioned. I don’t see the need for women to get a wax every few months–it actually seems a bit barbaric to me.
From what I’ve heard, this is really a generational issue. Gals in their 20s and late teens consider waxing to be a normal part of their beauty regimen. My friends in Singles’ Wards say that many of the girls get full brazilian waxes regularly even though they aren’t even sexually active. This seems completely extreme. I can understand wanting a wax before a honeymoon or another special occasion, but not just for everyday life as an LDS virgin.
And what do you think about men who are also starting to get into the habit of regular waxing? When I was at a local spa recently there was a man sitting in the waiting room, too. I wasn’t sure if he was there for a facial, a wax, or some other procedure, but it seemed pretty strange to me.
Tom Sawyer said
I’ve never waxed, but I’ve always been pretty fastidious about grooming myself. I’d like to try it, to tell you the truth.
How much does it cost, and how often do you have to do it?
jessawhy said
Yes! This is a big issue for me. My 2 younger sisters (unmarried) think that waxing is a big deal. I am totally against it (although in my late twenties). It is painful, barbaric even. My 26 yo sis is an estetician (sp?) and she waxes all the time.
I had an outbreak of MRSA once from an underarm wax, so I am hesitant to do it again.
Anyway, I think it is so crazy to spend that kind of pain and money to rid hair that only one other person sees and he doesn’t really care.
MoJo said
Goodness gracious, has no one heard of a laser? Two, three treatments, you’re done for life.
Elaine Frei said
I’m sorry. I just don’t understand why so many women want to infantilize themselves by removing that hair. Because that’s what it is. Women have hair there. Babies and little girls don’t.
MoJo said
Elaine, for me, as a purely practical hygienic matter, it’s simply convenient. On a sexual basis, it heightens arousal for me, makes me more sensitive. I did it when I was single for reason number 1. I do it now that I’m married for reason number 2.
Eugene said
Men (as opposed to boys) naturally grow hair in places where some religions (and certain educational institutions) like to pretend they don’t, while other religions like to emphasize that men (real men) do indeed grow hair there. Curious. (No point, I just had one of those George Carlin moments.)
Lily said
Tom:
Depending on where you live and how fancy your salon is, a brazilian will run about $50-$100. I don’t know how the price of lasering compares, because I’ve never looked into it. Anyone want to pipe up and share their experiences with laser hair removal? I’d like to know if it’s very painful.
Elaine Frei said
Maybe my puzzlement comes from the fact that I don’t have enough hair down there for any of that to have ever been a problem.
Well, that might be TMI, but there it is.
Joe Too said
Bab[y girls] and little girls don’t have underarm or leg hair either, so that’s a rather bogus argument.
I personally find the shaved look extremely sexy, though the idea of waxing very painful even for legs. On the other hand, I’ve been told that some women get accustomed to it and not having to shave for a while is worth what pain there is.
(Incidentally, prepubescent boys don’t have facial hair, yet most men shave. Fortunately, I only have to every two or three days, yet if I don’t, my beard grows in so poorly, I look even worse than my normal appearance. I hate it too.)
Elaine Frei said
And not all women shave their underarm and leg hair.
Especially with underarm hair, it is often said that it is unsanitary (and I prefer to shave my pits, because hair there tends to accumulate odors from sweat, which is just nasty), but if it were really a cleanliness issue, wouldn’t men shave their pits, too?
On the other hand, I don’t think there is any way to argue that legs must be shaved for sanitary purposes. If there is, I haven’t heard it. All I have ever heard is how freaked out so many people get when a woman doesn’t shave her legs.
At any rate, I’ll remove hair other ways than waxing…I don’t do pain, and I don’t think there is anything noble is suffering pain for beauty.
And, no, I don’t wear high heels or very pointed shoes, either.
buffy said
On men:
I used to think hair wherever was fine, kinda nice even. I changed my mind 2 days ago when swimming laps at the gym. Some dude had a very freaky patch growing near the small of his back. I’ve never seen such a large isolated clump in an unexpected place and couldn’t stop sneaking looks. unfortunately switched my stroke to get a better gape and ended up inhaling a bunch of water and almost gave myself an aspiration pneumonia. So my new theory is if it looks like you have a beaver crawling out of your ass, public manners (and in my case safety) dictate a trim.
buffy said
on women:
huge peer pressure kind of feeling (which is weird because it is originally a porn construct and I never watch porn and compare, o.k. on vacation infrequently..), try to keep shaved but desperately fear an ingrown hair that proliferates or a cut that may merit I.V. antibiotics (good grief it’s like trying to shave a pita wrap blindfolded after all). Embarassed to spread it for a professional wax, tried a do-it-yourselfer which ranks in the top 3 stupidist things I’ve ever done. Ever. still have the scars. Ultimately, carry the guilt of calling myself a feminist and doing this kind of crap to my girlie parts.
Joe Too said
Actually, shaving the pubic hair is an Islamic teaching.
My oldest daughter told me she started shaving everything below the neck at about thirteen just because she thought it looked better. She had no idea other people did it or that it was a porn thing.
buffy said
yes, but your daughter I assume is not Islamic. That is a centuries old practice, even older than Hijab. Pubic bareness is quite new in western societies, particularly the U.S.
Why did she think it “looked better”? Who set up that standard that hairlessness down there “looks better”. Brazilian’s were popularized by porn, known fact. Just because someone doesn’t look at porn doesn’t mean that they haven’t been influenced by trickle down fads. Some dude liked Jenna Jamison’s bareness, all his friends started liking it, Men’s magazines raved about it, women’s mags got on board, everyone and thier girlfriends are getting it done because it is the cool thing to do. blah blah blah
buffy said
and “no idea other people did it” my hind end. I’m sure your kid showers in the gym at school, has girlfriends, and probably sees stuff on t.v. and in teen magazines…
Joe Too said
Buffy, please be more respectful. Since she was young, my oldest has always done her own thing. She shaved her body because she thought body hair looked ugly. Pretty simple. (Do note I spoke in past tense; she isn’t a teenager any more and did what she did before it became a popular fad.)
Why did shaving underarms and legs become popular? Both men and women liked the look and it helped with hygiene. While porn definitely popularized pubic shaving, it did so because many people found it appealing. That women were already seriously trimming themselves due to swim wear made making the next step not all that radical.
Joe Too said
Interesting article on this:
http://archive.salon.com/sex/feature/2000/09/06/hair_removal/print.html
(Pubic hair aside, does anyone here even wax their legs? It appears to be quite painful.)
buffy said
Because “she thought it looked ugly” and “always does own her own thing” is just a wee bit of a contradiction don’t you think. Who made her think it looked ugly? To who’s ideals of beauty was she conforming to if she was trying to not “look ugly” sorry, but that sure doesn’t sound like doing your own thing…sounds like a teenager conforming to norms of her peers, which was sort of the crux of my argument.
Joe Too said
Buffy, I don’t understand your hostility. This was BEFORE it was a fad BEFORE some of her friends were doing it–if anything, she was the trend setter here. It simply wasn’t a norm at the time, especially at that age. She wasn’t exposing her body to anyone–it was her own aesthetic. I suppose her rationale for how she dyed her hair came from the same place in her mind. Frankly, if you knew my oldest daughter, this would cease to be a mystery.
My oldest son shaves his legs because he feels like it. He’s occasionally wears one red sock and one white sock to school and once decided to wear a pink bandanna around his neck for a week. He’s also grown his hair past his shoulders. Why? Because he feels like it.
The bottom line is that one’s personal aesthetic doesn’t have to be determined by larger trends, or someone else’s ideal of beauty. My youngest daughter, for example, doesn’t give a crap about how she looks. If we don’t stop her, she’ll go to school with her hair all wild in clothes she found at random in her room. (During my almost two years at BYU, I wore nothing but gray and black, many people thought I was making a radical statement, but I was just being practical since I never had to worry about matching anything.)
MoJo said
While I thought the ass beaver was the funniest thing I’ve read all week, I have to say that it is possible for people (even children!) to develop their own tastes independent of outside influences.
My kid decided she liked pink before I let her watch TV. I see no contradiction in how Joe’s daughter looked at her body hair (“ugly”) and how she came to that (“doing her own thing”). Why did someone have to make her think it was ugly? Is it not possible that she just looked in the mirror one day and pulled a squick face?
buffy said
This is devolving into a “can Joe’s daughter think for herself argument” which is not the intention or point really of anything I was trying to get across. I do believe that when it comes to negative body image in a woman, (sense of ugliness or whatever), there are generally outside social forces at work that plant those ideas either directly or indirectly and I can’t be convinced otherwise, sorry. (suggest “reviving Ophelia” by M. Pipher who can articulate my rationale better than I can)or there is a whole great batch of “Mean Girl” lit. that came out a few years ago, thoughtful, but not as smart.
My thinking is that if a woman paints hot wax onto her labia and anus and rips the hair out by the root, there are some weird outside forces that convince her it should be done. (I’m not saying it shouldn’t as I like the earlier points about sexual enhancement and hygiene as a reasonable explanation for choice). If you watch trends, grooming your netherlands has not stopped at waxing. Pubic liposuction is on the rise, and there is a large billboard down the street from my house touting “designer laser vaginoplasty” (yes I live in So.Cal). It seems that now there is a “look” to the whole package that we will probably be expected to emulate if it takes off like the other trends have.
I agree with you Joe that one’s personal aesthetic doesn’t have to be determined by larger trends, and they shouldn’t, but the reality appears to be that they are for the greater part of the population. Your personal familial success at avoiding the trends is to be applauded, but it certainly isn’t generalizable. Unfortunately…
doubleL said
I like it and if the person doing the wax knows what they are doing then it really shouldn’t hurt as bad as one would think. (I’m not saying it’s painless…)
I consider myself a feminist and I don’t see anything wrong with the bald look. I don’t think it’s demeaning and I don’t think it means I am trying to mold my nether regions into someone elses idea (except maybe my husbands and my own) of what is sexy or not. I definitley don’t think it’s trying to look like a kid either. Far from it because there is an adult body attached to it! It feels good to not have hair there and it’s sexy for a lot of men. My husband likes it so I do it. I like when he wears “real” underwear (boxer breifs, mmm) to bed so he does it. Just the things we do to keep it fun.
doubleL said
I didn’t do the winking smiley face myself… did it on it’s own…
Joe Too said
I think we differ on how much of beauty is a social construct. I totally disagree that when it comes to body image of either sex, that there are “generally outside forces at work”. Note that I didn’t use the phrase “negative body image” since it immediately makes the strange assumption that any attempt to change your body is immediately a bad thing. It also suggests that there is virtue in accepting yourself entirely as is. If you think about the absoluteness of that, it becomes clearly irrational.
When we have personality behaviors in ourselves we don’t like, we often change them, or at least attempt to. Sometimes these traits are rather benign, other times they are extreme or “ugly”. Sometimes they are things that really bother us individually, but which others would dismiss without a second thought. Regardless, this doesn’t mean we have “negative soul image”.
Going back to physical body perception, it is my observation that if a style doesn’t go to the heart of some common aesthetic sense, it simply doesn’t last. Things that do appeal, especially those things which cut through the intellectual levels of our perception to our base instincts do last.
Another thing to remember is that many of the trend lines you brought up are very small. For almost every plastic surgery procedure, you can find many people for whom the procedure was a godsend. Vaginoplasty wasn’t invented for the vain, but because there are women who really do need it. Why should they accept their “body image” as is, if medical science can help them in a very profound way? (To make an extreme argument, should a child born with a cleft lip simply accept that?)
Stepping further back, do you use makeup? Deodorant or anti-perspirant? Do you brush your hair? Cut it? Brush your teeth? Have had orthodontic work done? Do you need glasses? Do you shave your legs and/or armpits? How about the little hairs that show up in odd places? Once you head down the “negative body image” meme, you pretty can’t do any of this. Have fun socializing just about anywhere.
xJane said
I like having it “trimmed” (I fall into the 20s category of age), so I use my husband’s beard trimmer to keep it under control & then shave the edges (or pluck depending on how I feel & the position). If I shave all the way, it itches as it grows back & that annoys me. I have been known to do “landing strip” b/c I think it’s funny. I’d like to do full removal (like laser) on a permanent basis, but maybe just at the edges. My husband really likes it trimmed, so that’s enough for me (he goes down on me more often when it’s trimmed)
Lisa said
Grooming can be for yourself. I think keeping things very well-groomed is good hygiene. I don’t know why people assume that if you wax, it is wasted if no one or only your husband is going to see it. Seriously, how many people even want to see your bush? I know a lot of older women who don’t take the best care of themselves and they then wonder why their husbands aren’t very interested in them. Sorry, very few men are attracted to sad sacks with 70’s bush. No one said life was fair.
I believe in manscaping, but not the Brazilian or rio(landing strip) for men, that is a bit too much for me.
Jill said
Okay, this is the second time I have heard of the beard trimmer so I think I am going to have to pick one up.
I have always been the ‘all natural type’ because I believe that if God or evolution put hair there maybe it’s there for a reason. Plus I don’t get my period, so it seems like a little bit less of a hygeine issue for me.
But my boyfriend has mentioned several times that it’d be much easier to go down on me with less hair, and I just always saying that when I have shaved it it’s too itchy and bumpy, and for me waxing is out of the question, but the beard trimmer seems to be a good alternative.
xJane said
Jill: beard trimmer is teh awesome! I recommend it to all & sundry. Also, to those who do get their periods, I have to recommend the Keeper, which has allowed me to not purchase tampons or pads for lo! these 6 years. Fight the power! Also, it’s cleaner
jessawhy said
About laser hair removal.
I don’t know anyone who’s had it done on their nether-regions, but I do know a woman who had it done on her manstache and she said it all grew back and was a waste of money.
Anyone else?
Lily said
I figure that laser must not work so well or I’d know more women that have had it done.
chanson said
I agree with Joe Too’s comment #24.
People of both genders and across all human societies modify their appearance in a host of different ways. Sure, people’s ideas about what makes them look good is influenced by their culture, but so what? Shaving one’s privates seems like such an obvious extension of shaving one’s other body hair (pits and legs), that I don’t see how it could be perceived as an expression of not liking your body. Or if shaving other body hair (and plucking eyebrows, etc.), is (supposedly) also an expression of negative body image, then where do we draw the line? The other items on Joe Too’s list are superficial body modifications based on fashion too, so perhaps everyone in the world has negative body image. (Which may be true, but then it’s not exactly a pathology…)
One could make an equal and opposite positive argument for feminine shaving: in some cultures girls are taught that what’s “down there” is taboo enough that they feel uncomfortable even acknowledging the existence of certain body parts and wouldn’t be okay with focusing on their bits to the degree that a spa treatment requires. But today it’s a body part that girls feel comfortable including in their hygene/beauty routine the same as they do for other body parts.
For myself, I’m in the “close trim” camp. It’s a question of comfort and convenience in the same way that I clip my fingernails because they bother me when they get too long.
Steve said
Okay, I’m a complete walking, breathing contradiction. I would never get a tattoo or body piercings because I think they’re barbaric, but I had a full body wax before going on vacation in Mexico a couple of years ago. It took two and a half hours and the esthetician (sp?) that waxed me said she’d never taken so much hair off of one individual. The only place it really hurt was on my chest (lesson learned to trim it first next time, if there is a next time). I looked awesome on the beach (my wife’s words, not mine) but I’d only do it again for another special occasion, mainly because it was really expensive.
moriahjovan said
Color me barbaric!
MoJo said
Oopsie. I’m moriahjovan. I gotta get my accounts and passwords straight…