Unrealistic Expectations?
Posted by chanson on April 30, 2008
One of the primary feminist complaints about pornography is that is promotes unrealistic expectations. This point has already come up on The Visitors’ Center here. I’ve also heard people jokingly suggest that romance novels play a parallel role, encouraging women to have unrealistic expectations that ordinary men can’t live up to. I’d never heard this argued seriously, though, until I read this fascinating post about Stephenie Meyer’s Twilight.
The comments in particular blew me away:
2)Edward is completely unrealistic.
The reason that so many teenage girls have a crush on Edward is the same reason he is an unrealistic representation of men. He constantly wants to know what Bella is thinking and feeling and he’s so completely emotionally in tune with her that he always says just the right things to her without her ever having to help him out. They never have to work at their communication. They never have to work at anything. It seems to me that young women tend to have too much of an idealized image of relationships anyway. Do they really need something to feed their idea that they can have a relationship that will completely fulfill all their emotional needs?
and
I have constantly heard of boyfriends who are utterly bewildered about their girlfriends’ obsession with Edward. My painting teacher last semester said that when she was at Costco, she saw a group of young men walk over to a stack of Twilight books and begin discussing how their girlfriends were all obsessed with the books. She said as they walked away, one of them said, “What’s Edward got that we don’t have?” It’s kind of a funny story, but if you do a mental reversal of roles here, it doesn’t seem as funny. Imagine a group of girls standing near a stack of Lara Croft films at Costco, looking at each other in confusion and saying the same thing.
and
One evening my roommate came into the living room and said, “What page are you on?” I said, “page ##.” She said, “I just finished that part, and Katherine, no man is ever going to love us that way. This is why I hate boys.”
and especially
I agree about Edward being the absolute fantasy of a man for Mormon teenagers. He’s dangerous (a vampire!) but not really (he’s good!). He is hot but doesn’t care. He’s rich but doesn’t care and doesn’t have to work for it. He is powerful but is helpless before Bella’s charms after only a glimpse of her. He is attentive and loyal and thinks only of her. He is, in a word, perfect, and he bears about as much resemblance to a real person as an airbrushed Pamela Anderson. I was talking to a married friend who was shocked by how much she loved them. I get passionate and obsessed with works of fiction all the time and have learned to enjoy it and let it go when I’m done, but this was the first time it happened to my friend. She read them in part because she was having a hard time with her husband, and, to say the least, they didn’t help.
“Am I being unfair in comparing him to Edward?”
“Are you kidding? Yes.”It is fantasy romance fiction, and if anyone does take it seriously as a model for how a relationship should work, I think that’s as damaging to one’s psyche as looking at movie porn and expecting real life relationships to resemble those.
Regardless of what you think of the Twilight series, these comments seem to indicate pretty clearly that it’s possible for romance novels to create (potentially harmful) unrealistic relationship expectations. What I’m wondering is why there’s always such an outcry about the sauce for the gander while we hear almost nothing about the sauce for the goose. I have a few possible theories:
- Fantasizing about a partner who is superhumanly attentive and thoughtful is more noble than fantasizing about a partner who is superhumanly beautiful.
- The proportion of men who look at porn is far greater than the proportion of women who read romance novels.
- It only takes a glance to see what fantasy an erotic image is selling, whereas to discover the same about a novel you have to read a whole book.
- Many people who condemn porn actually mean for erotic literature to be included since it can’t always be divided so neatly into written vs. visual and especially not into “what men like” vs. “what women like.”
I think the reason is a little bit of all of these, as well as a question of empowerment. If someone can’t tell fantasy from reality — and if merely entertaining a fantasy makes that person incapable of ever being satisfied by reality — then ultimately that person is the one who’s going to suffer and be perpetually unsatisfied. Men and boys (being more empowered) are more likely to say “your unrealistic expectations are your problem” whereas women and girls are encouraged to see their own opinions of themselves as less important than their partner’s opinion of them.
That’s not to suggest that the portrayal of women in stories and the media is unimportant. The public face of women is critical for shaping attitudes, which is why I’ve written a number of posts for the feminist media blog The Hathor Legacy. As in the media in general, I’d like to see a lot more diversity and realism in the erotic arts since the audience is not well served when producers constantly go with the simple, low-risk choice of serving up nothing but the same old same old.
Still, in a specialized genre in which the whole point is to revel in the fantasy of the ideal partner, isn’t the charge “it’s unrealistic” a bit of a ridiculous complaint…?
April 30, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Provocative post, chanson!
Let me offer a few thoughts:
1) I devoured the Twilight books. Thought they were cleverly written and highly entertaining. I think I read each of them in less that 24 hrs (well, the first 2 at least, haven’t read #3 yet). The same goes for my preteen daughter. That said, Edward’s character may be the biggest weakness of those books. He is far, far too perfect. He needs to be a Rochester or a Heathcliff. He needs to be just ever so slightly less human (ok, and this is my second beef with the series: Meyer _never_ explains what happens to E during Bella’s period given his apparent bloodlust, but that’s a tangent)
2) I had one boyfriend back when I was single who was sort of like an Edward. He was totally devoted, if I said I wanted something I would come home to find it waiting for me. He did extravagant creative dates. He fixed my car. He brought flowers and treats. He was sensitive and loving and eager. But really, all that drove me crazy after about 2 weeks. His devotion was stifling, even mind-numbing at times. I wanted a partner who was his own person and not a man-servant. So as I read Twilight, I found images of this guy flitting around in my head and it made me rather repulsed.
3) There is a fabulous academic work called _Reading the Romance_ that argues that women read romance novels to help them accept patriarchy. It’s a bit complex, but basically the author is arguing that the fantastic stories of heroic lovers help them to accept their own less-than-stellar spouses. It also helps them to be submissive, which is really odd given that the heroines of such novels tend to be pretty spunky and unsubmissive. If I get a chance, I’ll pull my copy of RTR off the shelf and type up some of the author’s arguments for you. At one point in time I had planned to write an ethnography of LDS romance readers, but that has yet to happen…but it would be so fascinating, I do hope that the project doesn’t stay on the back burner forever.
April 30, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Thanks!!!
I’m very tempted to read at least the first one myself (the others have gotten mixed reviews) because I’m fascinated by the LDS response to these books. I’m thinking of writing another post here about the “bloodlust,” so I hope nobody beats me to it!
I’d also be interested to hear more about “Reading the Romance” because I have kind of mixed feelings about whether romances are “feminist” or “anti-feminist”. Honestly, I think the situation is complex enough that they might realistically be seen as both. Which makes it all the more fun as a discussion topic!
April 30, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Great discussion! My best friend asked me today if I had read these books. (I have to admit that I have barely heard of them before) I told her about this thread, and she laughed and agreed that Edward was a little too perfect.
But, now that I’ve read all of this, I’m going to have to borrow the book!
April 30, 2008 at 7:48 pm
lol, I have to get a hold of a copy too…
May 1, 2008 at 5:33 am
[...] called The Visitors’ Center!!! Stop by and have a look at my post Unrealistic Expectations? which will be the first in my mildly titillating series on sexy Mormon [...]
May 1, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Thing about Edward, from all I’ve heard, is that he’s almost a prototype abusive boyfriend.
-Highly protective
-Almost obsessively interested in everything she’s doing and thinking
-This makes him very considerate and thoughtful
-He won’t take “no” for an answer (”oh no darling, I insist”
-He makes extravagant gifts and personal gestures
-Good at manipulating feelings of sympathy, guilt, and need for affection to get what he wants
-Sooo romantic
Which will eventually turn to:
-interrogations about where she’s been and who she’s been with
-attempts to isolate her from friends and family (initiating mutual gripe sessions about them)
-ultimately trying to control things like her finances, access to an automobile, phone privileges
Then as he starts to feel more and more paranoid and threatened in the relationship:
-becomes physically abusive (always later appalled by his behavior and extravagant in his attempts to “make-up”
-starts to lash out against any attempt on her part to become more independent (this is why divorce attorneys are installing security cameras in their offices and getting concealed-carry permits and why abusive boyfriends are one of the number one sources of violent workplace crime - when he shows up at her job with a gun for instance)
-when he starts to feel like he’s losing her, he often attempts to kill her
Yeah. Real romantic. And it crosses all racial and socio-economic lines. A girl with a PhD is just as at-risk for an abusive relationship as a pregnant high-school dropout in a ghetto.
This book isn’t just p-rnographic. It’s downright dangerous to young women, because it encourages thought-patterns about relationships that can really get them in serious trouble.
May 1, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Stupid emoticons…
May 1, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Seth — Yeah, I didn’t quote all of the comments, but others (on that thread and elsewhere) have talked about how Edward is controlling and emotionally abusive. Again, I feel like I should read the book before pronouncing on it, but it sounds like there’s something to this accusation…
(And I have that same problem with the emoticons on these wordpress blogs…
May 1, 2008 at 1:59 pm
See? That wasn’t supposed to be an emoticon…
May 1, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Oh, and regarding “A girl with a PhD is just as at-risk for an abusive relationship as a pregnant high-school dropout in a ghetto”: is that a coincidence, or are you referring to this?
May 1, 2008 at 2:50 pm
No, just facts I picked up when I took a Women’s Lit class at UVSC back in the 90s. Think I might have also read it in “The Gift of Fear.” That book should be required reading for everyone.
May 1, 2008 at 3:12 pm
It’s a matter of perspective. People who confuse dreams with reality are unlikely to benefit from literature. Those of us who can tell the difference between reality and imagination might as well enjoy creativity.
It’s not just fluff that misleads people. Just think of all the guys who got themselves killed reading too much Nietzsche. And Nietzsche is definitely high brow.
I take that back. Reading is not the problem. The problem is believing.
With respect to pornography, the unrealistic expectations argument also applies to Greek statues. Talk about the ideal body!
If you are against pornography for that reason then you also need to be against Greek civilization. The church fathers had Greco-Roman statues destroyed. Although that might have been due to a concern about idolatry.
One thing is certain, however, the Greeks did not confuse their artwork with reality.
May 1, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Hellmut — very good points. Personally, I don’t think that appreciating and idealizing beauty (even in humans, even in women) should be condemned as something to be ashamed of.
There’s a very subtle point to be made here because I agree with the feminists that beauty shouldn’t be the only desirable quality in a woman. Everywhere you look in the media (fiction as well as news), men (of all different appearances) are in the public eye for various qualities and accomplishments, yet it’s shockingly rare to hear anything about any woman who isn’t gorgeous. So — while I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with art praising the ideal human form (eg. the ancient Greeks and/or modern erotic images) — I think that the portrayal of everyday people in stories, etc., should be a little more egalitarian…
May 1, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Both my daughters and my wife have read all three books at least five times (no exaggerating) and we even took a family vacay to Forks, WA to see the sights. Not a day goes by where aspects and characters of the book are not discussed and debated. Do I think that the women in my family have trouble distinguishing fantasy from reality? No. But do I think these books are shaping and coloring their view of reality? … you’re damn right I do. No less than than the daily study of scripture or the contemplation of the person of Christ are known to change hearts and minds and world-views.
Unlike Jesus, nobody’s asking anyone to believe that Edward is a real person. But this is not the point. Just like Jesus, my kids an maybe even my wife (though I’m not as sure) are clearly expecting to match the patterns in the book with patterns in the world.
Sometimes it comes across as kidding and needling, but I’m fairly sure that they experience real disappointment when they see that their father is no Edward but much more like the character everyone loves to deride, Jacob Black.
Yes, whether it’s Jesus or Edward or _________, the idealized character which can never be tested cast a shadow on our assessment of real people and that is truly sad, I think.
May 1, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Matt — Yikes, the more I hear about this series, the creepier it becomes. And to be honest, I thought it sounded creepy the first time I heard about it….
If it’s any consolation, some of the Mormon ladies on some Bloggernacle threads I’ve read actually prefer Jacob. (He’s the werewolf, right? Or am I mixing this up? )
May 1, 2008 at 6:58 pm
No, you’re right on. My experience has been that most really like Jacob at first but over time Edward totally eclipses him (pun intended). Sure, there may be a few Jacob hold-outs but just as with Jesus it’s easily explained as “they just don’t get it”.
Another note, this book series is far from a Mormon phenom, My kid’s non-LDS friends are all reading the books. And there’s definitely a cult-like aspect though thankfully no centralized organization so I’m fairly certain that this too will pass.
I’m thinking about introducing my kids to sci-fi. Maybe start with Ender’s Game.
May 1, 2008 at 7:07 pm
I admit, I’m not interested in near-perfect characters and I’m also not interested in all-bad villains. I like flawed and morally ambiguous characters.
I haven’t read this series yet. In fact, I’ve only barely heard about it, even, but it sounds intriguing on an artistic level to see what she’s done that’s created such a firestorm.
May 1, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Matt — are you kidding???
MoJo — I’m with you 100%. If there’s anything more boring than the hero who’s perfect, it would be the villain who delights in evil just because he’s pure evil. Still, I agree it’s intriguing on an artistic level to wonder what she did to provoke such an intense reaction from people.
May 1, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Not kidding.
I haven’t read the books myself. But based on what I hear from my kids, who would really like me to join-in, this is why I “don’t get it.” As far as they’re concerned I’m hopelessly lost and have nothing of value to add to the conversation until I actually pick-up the book and read it for myself. Sound familiar?
May 1, 2008 at 7:46 pm
If someone can’t tell fantasy from reality — and if merely entertaining a fantasy makes that person incapable of ever being satisfied by reality — then ultimately that person is the one who’s going to suffer and be perpetually unsatisfied. Men and boys (being more empowered) are more likely to say “your unrealistic expectations are your problem” whereas women and girls are encouraged to see their own opinions of themselves as less important than their partner’s opinion of them.
I’m mostly with you, chanson, but I have to disagree that the people with unrealistic expectations are the only ones suffering (at least that’s what you appear to be saying). A person’s partner also suffers when he or she is perpetually dissatisfied.
Romance novels pose very similar risks to more conventional porn. That’s not a reason to ban them, but instead to use with caution and all due awareness to the risks involved.
May 1, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Re: A person’s partner also suffers when he or she is perpetually dissatisfied.
True, but I have a simple solution to that one: don’t get involved with someone who doesn’t have a little bit of common sense. That’s not an unreasonable expectation, is it?
May 1, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Good advice as long as the dissatisfaction is discernible prior to getting involved.
May 2, 2008 at 4:28 am
“True, but I have a simple solution to that one: don’t get involved with someone who doesn’t have a little bit of common sense. That’s not an unreasonable expectation, is it?”
Actually, it may be more unreasonable than you think.
May 2, 2008 at 5:24 am
Seth and Jonathan — It’s true, it simplifies things if your partner behaves in a rational way, but you can’t always count on that…
May 2, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Hmmmm. I didn’t get a lot of what you all seem to have gotten from reading “Twilight” (I haven’t read the other two books yet). Then again, I approached it as a vampire story rather than as a romance…probably because I gave up reading romance novels when I was in about the eighth grade (which was a very long time ago).
I have to say that I did like “Twilight” - quite a bit more than I expected to, really. I only picked it up and read it because of the novelty of finding a trade paperback that cost less that $10. I was interested in how an active Mormon would approach the whole vampire milieu and how she would handle the sexuality that is inherent in all the vampire stories I’ve ever read. But I likely wouldn’t have picked it up if it had been any more expensive than it was.
The other thought I had while reading your post, Chanson, and the responses is that Edward’s behavior toward Bella did not set off alarms as far as how younger women readers would react to/internalize the story nearly so much as how Meyer portrayed Bella’s classmates’ reactions to her at her new school. Everyone there, it seems, was dazzled by Bella’s looks. She had boys fighting over her, had (some, at least) of the girls jealous of her. That emphasis on how one looks, while more and more realistic given our media-driven culture that puts so much emphasis on appearance, makes me very nervous in a world where most of us are not dazzlngly beautiful or devastatingly handsome. So, I worry a lot more about what signals that aspect of the story is sending, especially to adolescent girls. But maybe that’s just fallout from having learned at a young age that Janis Ian was mostly right…”I learned the truth at seventeen/that love was meant for beauty queens/and high school girls with clear-skinned smiles/who married young and then retired.”
Oh, and Jana, I too would be very interested in hearing more about the theory in the book you mentioned.
May 3, 2008 at 5:54 pm
I have a bit of a problem with people criticizing a book they’ve never read. How can you know what’s really going on if you haven’t read it? And I don’t know how to have a discussion about it without spoilers. So I guess spoiler-adverse people shouldn’t continue reading..
I definitely was not a fan of Edward throughout most of the series, and preferred Jacob, because I always thought Edward was too stifling and controlling. He definitely seems to be overlapping a bit too much with that behavior of an abusive boyfriend. And I have a huge problem with how Bella is virtually incapable of functioning without him. But Jacob lost my favor as well when he kissed Bella completely against her will, despite her fighting back. I don’t find that acceptable or romantic at all. That scene made me mad enough to spit, and it’s totally wrong and irresponsible to present as romantic in a book supposedly for young girls. I think maybe Meyer has some BDSM fetish.
But the series isn’t over yet, so I’m still waiting to see if Meyers redeems herself. I don’t necessarily think she owes it to society to present moral role models in a work of fiction but from a literary point of view, if she doesn’t show some consequences for their actions, then the books really are nothing more than fantasy “soft porn for Mormons girls.”
The books are entertaining for someone mature enough to not think Edward and Bella’s relationship is totally romantic and desirable to have in real life. It’s alarming to hear that not only silly teen fangirls but also grown women with children of their own are having such a reaction. I would hope that parents would be mature enough to have a discussion with their kids about how the books are fun and all but Bella’s relationships are extremely unhealthy and we wouldn’t want that in real life, right?
May 4, 2008 at 2:02 am
Laura,
You bring up something that I’ve been mulling over. Those who have never had a romantic relationship don’t have a good basis to judge what they read as unrealistic. Likewise, those who have never had sex might not have a good basis to understand that what porn portrays usually isn’t true-to-life.
May 4, 2008 at 4:31 am
But Laura…In real life, there aren’t always consequences for actions, in the way that you seem to mean that. So, unless you see all of literature as necessarily enforcing social norms (which I don’t, by the way), I don’t think there is any responsibility to show those consequences as inevitable in fiction. And I don’t think that not showing those consequences makes the literature “porn”.
It puts in mind the old Hayes Code in Hollywood, where it was an actual written requirement that anyone who did anything that was unacceptable to polite society in a film had to be shown as “paying the price”. That was valuable, I suppose, as social control, but it didn’t serve to make the films terribly realistic all the time.
May 4, 2008 at 4:27 pm
I realize it’s a bit questionable to be discussing a book without having read it (and Elaine’s unexpected reaction makes me just that much more curious to read it…). Still, for the moment I’m interested in the reaction and (LDS) context more than in the text itself. And in Matt’s case, I wouldn’t begrudge him analyzing the reaction alone since that reaction is intimately affecting his daily life. Personally, I don’t have an excuse except for being fascinated by this whole phenomenon, and actually I have one more (pre-reading) discussion I’d like to post if people are willing to indulge me. Then I’ll read the book and write another couple of volumes of commentary.
May 4, 2008 at 4:37 pm
p.s. another couple of fun discussions of Twilight: Another serious one at A Motley Vision, and a ROTFL one at Normal Mormon Husbands.
May 4, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Chanson:
I hope you do keep posting on Twilight. I’m eager to hear what you have to say! :}
May 4, 2008 at 6:47 pm
There’s no question in my mind that one can be fairly critical of a book one has not read, particularly when criticism is drawn from the way a book affects readers. Sure, it may be more accurate to say that my criticism is of the reader not the book, but I’m also sure we can agree that the reader is at least half of what constitutes the meaning of a book and that there’s a human tendancy to prefer to blame the book than the reader. The idea over the person. So I criticize the book.
Perhaps I shoud have added that I think everything we read has an impact on our worldview, including our views of other people, and things we read repetetively even more so. Again, this does not mean that one need take the character of Edward as a whole and seek to pattern-match it in the real world and I don’t think very many would do this. Rather, one need only to selectively take the patterns in Edward’s character that one adores or finds appealing while ignoring the rest. You know, ignoring things like cold lips and abusive obsessesions, etc.
And maybe this selectiveness is where the real problem lies. I don’t think my daughters want to find a vampire-like character in the real world, even a “veggie-vampire” like Edward, not literally at least. But they do seem willing to ignore/not notice the worst aspects of Edward in deference to his best aspects. And one of the wost aspects of Edward, in my opinion, is that he has a surreal collection of best aspects.
I don’t really know how to put this into words. The best I can do is to say that Edward is an irrational character on the whole while containing much that is rational. His surreal collection of best aspects being attached to a collection of horrifying aspects seems to have the affect of making the surreal seem real and attainable by contrast. As if, by having the opportunity to throw-out the obvious fiction, the mind finds reason for accepting as real what it might have otherwise rejected.
There’s certainly more to it. But I think we’re often puzzled by the ability of an idea to bewitch the human mind. And in my experience the bewitching follows a proccess that seems utterly reasonable to the mind. But the surest sign of such a process my be the arguement that you have to read the book to “get it”, to be critical of it, to be listened to by others who “get it”.